STRK Staking on Nimbora

Ohad: Okay. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Stark Space. I am a first timer at hosting this. I’m sure you’ll forgive me. With us today is Edi specifically talking to us about the Nimbora project and application. Edi, maybe you can start by introducing yourself and what you do.

Edi: Sounds good. Yeah, thanks. I think you’ll be good. So you’re good in these things, so I’m assuming it will be fine. So yeah, just a short intro. I was on Space with Louis last time, so basically I can do a short one. I was a core dev interior foundation back in the day, so lead team and then three years ago decide to switch to start building here, basically got start piled and so on and start. We are building a bunch of stuff from DevNet to and what’s important basically in Nimbora, which is the idea behind Nimbora, is quite simple to make savings account available to everybody and with the certain tech, we are likely to do so.

Ohad: Okay, amazing. Yeah. So indeed you’re a very important member of the Starknet ecosystem and community, I know that you just came back from EthCC, I said hello in the meetings. What are your impressions from EthCC and from the Starknet community?

Edi: It was quite interesting because the bear marketish vibes are all over, but in starting a hacker house and in the inventive was quite positive, people looking forward and so on. That’s why I like the ecosystem. It’s like long-term focus focused on the things in the future and so on. So we don’t need to be bothered with short-term things like some others and so on. And there were a bunch of stuff from payments as one of the biggest things like native account obstruction and users coming to start it again.
So I think the vibe is overall positive. There’s a lot of people in the hacker house, some interesting teams there. I was also a judge so it was quite interesting to hear some of the new stuff. I’m really bullish on new projects coming and obviously Starknet CC is always like a family gathering with new friends and family and getting larger and so on. It’s a special feeling. It feels like the Ethereum Foundation back in the day to be honest. Yeah.

Ohad: Wow, great. Yeah, good to see everyone just focused on building and mapping what’s missing for us. A very good feeling. So yeah, maybe you can give us high level view of Nimbora, what is it and specifically how it evolved since the last time you introduced it here.

Edi: Absolutely. Let’s start with a problem. So usually when you Defi or when you want to use it, you need the PhD, which means that you need to know what is doing this, what is doing that and so on. And the thing that Nimbora wants to do to makes it simple. So imagine the same account you have on Revolut or some like neo bank or bank that you have, usually what’s the issue with that? Well, you deposit money into there and then something happens and their custodian, you’re assets and so on and you never know what will happen with it. We’re seen with FDX and with Celsius, when you have custodians it’s not really the great user experience, especially when the market goes down so the assets can disappear or get locked and so on.
So imagine that we can bring this seamless interaction with Defi, you can get the savings account fully unchained, fully decentralized, but still that the guest fees are negligible because one of the next frontiers in our opinion would be to enable web two kind of experience, but fully decentralized and on chain. That’s what Nimbora is trying to do and for now the feedback is pretty good. So the users like it’s simple, but one of the things we don’t want to cross is this custodian way of the things the others are doing. We want to be self custodial and so on.
And Starknet is a deal for this because native account abstraction, amazing improvements in tech now, just like when I heard about and how big improvements are going to be like 100x, how again you managed to do it. So kudos also the Starknet team for that. Starknet has always been on the edge of the impossible and that’s why we are building on Stark and using starting to scale this and we want to build Nimbora as a fully decentralized savings account on chain and Starknet is the best home for that.
So that’s kind of it. And what we kind changed from last time, obviously we had borrowing and so on, we introduced the earn program so you can just deposit the assets and so on and you can use them that way. So you can possibly learn using Nimbora and there are some big announcements also in the future that we can discuss a bit later the plans and so on.

Ohad: Wow. Yeah, great. I think that as a person from Starknet, it’s really amazing to see all the projects develop with time and when starting capabilities go, the capabilities go very soon after that. So it’s a nice evolution. So maybe you can double click into what users can actually do on those savings account with Nimble, is it just manage for them? Do they define strategies? How does it work?

Edi: Sure. So for now basically it’s curated strategies because for now we kind of create the strategy specifically for the users. So depending what you want to get exposure to. So let’s say I’m just a normal user, I would just want to have DAI or USDC or USDT. I don’t want to risk buying risky assets. Well, we have a strategy for that. Obviously the simplest one and the lowest risk is the Spark, the DSR of Spark where you basically invest there and you get kind of returns on that. And then on the more degen side or the more riskier side, we have LRTs like EPHI and so on where you can invest and get additional points and stuff.
But the whole kind of point is with one click from Starknet, all this is possible and you don’t have to think about anything. So what happens under the hood is actually quite interesting because we… I think Louis or somebody from the Starknet team also invented Defi pooling or at least kind of coined the term and went into that direction.
But the idea is quite simple and quite amazing. You have L2 two which is kind of behaving like a co-processor of Ethereum, like Starnet scaling, Ethereum Execution, how? On Starknet we have vaults, we aggregate user deposits. Let’s say I want to invest into Spark, I have 10 like DAI, you want to invest into Spark, you have a hundred and somebody else has… I don’t know, 90, so we have 200, but there was also somebody who already did invest and wants to spend money on the holidays or whatever or his wife asked for, I don’t know, she needs to buy some new shoes or something. So he wants to kind of take the money out.
We match that locally on Starknet and then just the delta of that, we shuttle through the Starknet on May net deposit into strategy and get basically yield generating assets for the user. So user doesn’t see bridges, doesn’t see any complexity. Starknet only thing you do is basically Starknet wallet and some assets on it and that’s it. And in the future, ideally when we have better ramps on Starknet, it can be fully web two base because we can abstract fees, with Paymaster and so on, users can kind of have on their mobile phones this kind of experience which feels and looks like a web two thing but it’s actually fully decentralized.
So that’s kind of it. And then obviously in the future, staking is one of the main things that’s coming to Stark, the Stark staking, which I think is a great thing, not just for earning money, obviously, that’s a kind of a side thing, but because it is finally getting decentralized, so we’re talking about this thing for years now. “Oh yeah, it needs to get decentralized,” and so on.
And now finally basically it’s becoming a reality and this will make it fully production ready in my opinion because now when Starknet is not the ones only running sequencers and provers, but you actually have the community participating and doing this, it’s basically resistant to censorship and everything else. So we can actually truly scale this to the global level and with two another stuff, maybe even to the masses, maybe the mass adoption is around the corner. So I’m bullish on that.

Ohad: Yeah, it definitely feels like the adoption is growing and the entire ecosystem not only Starknet, which is very positive and yeah, we’ll touch, I think, in detail a bit later, but yeah, I’d just love to see get your perspective. Obviously, Nimbora sounds like a very good strategy for people that are new to the ecosystem. I don’t want to have a lot of obstacles. So what’s your take on this slide? What measures have you taken board to make it UX friendly and not reduce those barriers for a non-web savvy people?

Edi: I mean, it’s quite simple when you think about what you as a user want, you want basically you have some assets and you want to earn maximum money on it, but maybe you’re not comfortable with high risk, maybe you want a lower risk thing or something. That’s basically what Nimbora does, it curates, “Okay, this strategy is low risk, it gives you a bit less return but it’s less risky and this one basically gives you higher and so on.”
There are complex strategies in the background, things like looping, going to main net, harvesting rewards and so on. But users are abstracted from all of those things because if you already know how to do those things, you’re probably like Arbitrage or something, you’re advanced user so you don’t need that. And with Nimbora, all those kind of things are abstracted but still their own chain so you can kind of verify them and so on and see where the assets are and that you can kind of validate them. But yeah, again, Stark is the home because of the scale of the tech and the maturity of it. And obviously is the future. So no roll-ups on this thing on this side.

Ohad: So I’d love if you can and expand a bit more. Like I saw recently that you launched the Start Vaults. Can you expand a bit more on what is it and why it’s exciting?

Edi: Sure. So when you think about savings DAI, why is it so magical? Because you don’t really know what’s going on in the record. You don’t know which specific strategy each DAI goes too. But on average you get these returns and on average basically this is how you earn money. The idea with Stark is for the users who want to hold Stark, who believe basically Stark will be a big thing that we believe basically that will go like long-term will be sustainable and so on, is that we can optimize multiple strategy for you that you don’t have to think about.
So there are a couple of phases. Obviously, this is Genesis phase where we are attracting early users to join the savings. Obvious next step would be events taking comes that we optimize that you get some LST exposure to that. So you basically can automatically, when you participate in saving stocks, you automatically participate in staking. So you get basically base yield from there, which will go anywhere we’ll see in a production, but we expect around five, six, maybe even higher percent.
And then on top of that, what you can get, which is a differentiator from other LSTs, you get additional strategies that you can choose to fit. So you’ll have the levels, “Okay, I can just do LST, that’s fine, I get 5%, I don’t want risky stuff.” Or you can also do looping where you can leverage the position a couple of times and then have a higher rewards, let’s say 10, 15% instead of five. But it’s basically high risk.
So we want to curate it for the users. So from those who are really, really don’t want to mess with their thing and just want to hold it and want to expose to that to the other side, which is completely on the degen side, let’s call it like that. So we want to offer basically this kind of range of products that is actually basically saving start. So as a user can choose which risk profile you present and we automate basically everything for you.

Ohad: Wow, very impressive. So that means that basically-

Edi: When you think about this, it’s a UX thing, it’s a convenience thing because you can also go stake, you can also go on lending market on money market and do something, but if it’s automated and we track basically that your portfolio is not liquidated, that your portfolio is healthy, that you basically… We manage this for you, it’s kind of a convenience thing. And users obviously like that. I mean, I think we just crossed like 10 million TVL’s or we are close to that. So it’s been pretty good on that front.

Ohad: 10 million on embodiment, not on stock.

Edi: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. 10 million on stock would be a small number. So yeah.

Ohad: Yeah, exciting. So if I understand correctly, it’ll allow people from Nimbora to actually participate in stock and stack, right?

Edi: Exactly. So that’s on the, and then you’ll be able to basically, which we’ll offer also basically LST on our side because we built in the past other LST protocols like on Polygon, which is biggest on Polygon before switching to Starknet so we know how to do these things and scale. It was like a couple of a hundred million protocols. So we know what everything basically entangles, how much work there is. And then on the other side we want to also offer what your offers on top of that. So it has advanced strategy on that way. So it’s basically again a convenience tool for somebody who is coming to Starknet who wants to possibly manage basically position to just join the savings Stark and choose basically their risk profile and then we optimize basically it for them.

Ohad: And can people expect this saving Stark to be launched immediately after staking is live, right? Because just full context of your staking will be live only few months and of scam sites that allow you to do it already, so might take a few months. So Stark stock could be a live, just visit. That’s the plan?

Edi: So there are a couple of things. Basically we can already, we start do strategies like on money markets we can do looping and those kind of things. So we can offer you leverage and then when staking comes, we’ll add that as a basically layer to it so you can kind of use it also just staking or you can use basically also the leverage on that and so on. So the phase, basically that’s why we are calling this Genesis. We’re just using the start directly. We’re not using the Stake Stark or whatever LST will be remember now that staking and then in the future we’ll switch a strategy to be underlying will be like Stake Stark and then on top of all these things and so on. So you’ll be able to choose basically what you want to do.

Ohad: Wow, very exciting. So this seems like very exciting plans for the next… I don’t know, four to six months, but what are your long-term vision/plans for? Where do you plan to take this amazing idea?

Edi: Look, it’s going to become Robin Hood of Web3, fully self custodial Robinhood where you can kind go and join Defi. But when think about regulation currently, now regulation is not really prone to… Coins are kind of regulated. You have EU regulation mica, which is not regulating Defi. That’s kind of the next big thing. And when you’re talking even with institutions and so on, they really are looking forward to Defi because Defi optimizes a lot of CFI issues and so on.
So in couple of years when we reach the scale with a tech, will reach the scale where guest fees can be abstracted, where you have a really good onboarding experience where you have a web two mobile wallet account abstraction on your phone. You’ll be able to have a savings account for the whole world easily like this and then fully abstracting the gas fees and abstracting you on the chain.
Actually, on the conference there was a couple of guys wearing a Nimbora kind of shirt like swag and some people are like, “Oh, great product.” There was like, “Okay, my wife use it and she put some money.” “On which chain is it?” I was like, “O%kay, that’s really interesting,” because if you don’t even know the tech under the hood when we achieved something, because if you don’t have to sell like a cult, “Oh this is the best tech because X and Y,” no because users use it, then we achieve what basically we aimed and that’s what we want to do with this. So that Nimbora is this kind of a frontend for Defi but still has to be convenient and look right.

Ohad: Wow. Yeah, very impressive. I totally agree that our goal is to have people that are just agnostic to the fact that it’s Starknet exactly, and I think we have great features that allow it. That’s good. I have some questions I saved for the end around your look and perspective from the position of on how things go. So if you want to say anything more about Nimbora, that’s the chance before we change the subject.

Edi: So inviting basically everybody to join on Discord to join us, to test it and so on. The idea on the NRA side, it’s also decentralized the stack. So in a couple of months we’ll switch to fully main net, which will enable anybody to launch the strategies. So you as a developer on Starknet will be able to launch the strategy easily and even if just solidity, you’ll be able to launch new integrations in just 40 or 50 lines of code.
So this way we’ll try to create an ecosystem around it. And then for the users, obviously all of us, we have announcement weekly or biweekly almost like every week, we’re maybe we’ll have a big break in the August because of the vacations, but yeah, we’ll continue shipping and stuff and give us your feedback, what we’re missing, what you want to use and so on.
And then integrating all the sealed assets down the road into the Starknet, into the DEX’s, into the money market. So instead of just having base assets like they are now, like USDC, USDT, which don’t generate yield by design that we focus on the more generating yield size, like Stake Stark, staking of other yield generating stables.
So by design Starknet becomes a hub for scaling, not even just Ethereum L1, but also Bitcoin L1 because that’s one of the magics that’s going to happen in some time, hopefully if gets merged relatively soon because Starknet will be, in my opinion, the best hub to scale both things and still make it really convenient and cheap and… I don’t know, I don’t know what else anybody needs to join Starknet, it’s a no-brainer, basically, to join and start building.

Ohad: Wow. Yeah. Yes, with everyone that passed, I’m a bit more excited about that.

Edi: Exactly.

Ohad: It’s not always been like that. It’s over the past four or five months, it’s like that.

Edi: Yeah, there’re always downtime and upsides and so on, it was amazing first, Bitcoin, okay, Starknet is scaling that way. I feel like every two months you reinvent your guys’ yourself and you create something and magnificent. So maybe I’m a geek, but that’s what makes me happy also.

Ohad: Okay, yeah. I have one last question about your perspective on the ecosystem. In the meantime, if you have any questions from homes that you’d like me to continue to ask after, feel free to write them here in the chat. I see quite a few, but I’m not sure which ones we’ve answered already. So please pose the questions if you have them.
So you explained a lot on Nimbora, but I want to ask you on the development process of it, right? First, if I’m a developer first as a very veteran member of our community, where do you suggest me to start and how can I get involved? And secondly, can you give maybe a few words on the work you had with the foundation and how much it supported you and maybe how much new developers can help full support. And over the last year, the foundation extend from like five, seven people each to 30 and it started to do a whole lot more things. I just look it from the side, I wonder how do you feel it and how do you think newcomers to the ecosystem will feel it?

Edi: I mean, there is so many opportunities from seed grants to… What amazes me to be honest is everybody’s approachable. You can think anybody and they answer, they’re really attentive, they try to help you and so on. And there’s really a good process from Dev Reels which help you on onboarding starting with just learning Cairo and getting first step in, into the later on the foundation side from the business support to growth. What do you need? What help? And that’s what I like because there is no like, “Oh, I don’t have time or I have to do this or that.” It’s so open and this is not normal thing. This doesn’t happen everywhere.
So this is the thing I’m really, that’s why I’m pushing even with the hard times, some market goes down, talking goes down, blah blah blah, whatever. But still the amount of support we got from all the fronts, I mean even you or anybody basically in Starkware, when we have some crazy idea we want to hack or something to break something new, you’re always like, “Oh, let’s see how we can help and support a foundation from all the sorts of stuff.”
And people care, that’s the core important thing here because it’s like for the long run, not focusing on the short term, helping the builders to build and so on. And Starknet is really nascent still when you think about the blockchain, it’s like just now maturing with the block times, with the maturity of the dev tools and so on, it’s now finally maturing to be really production ready and users are coming back. So I don’t know, just come and build things, just come and build next to unicorns because this is the place to do so.

Ohad: Yeah, totally. When looking on our developer community and it’s so crowded and now I was really excited by some of the Starknet project, have their own events. It was a very interesting development. And those events, I didn’t manage to go there unfortunately, but I heard very positive vibes from there.

Edi: I did on some. It was really good. It was really good. And that’s the community, usually what you have, I won’t name names, but let’s say this about or whatever, L1’s, L2’s, it’s easy to pivot from one chain to the other. And then what developers team do, they deploy on one chain, it doesn’t work. They deploy on the other. And this other, and I always try to explain to people, Cairo is a bug in a feature because once you decide to go in, you get so much new improvements, obviously, there is a friction to get it again, you need to learn it and so on, but you open another dimension of what you can do. And that’s kind of difference between not just doing for X, but we can innovate and so on.
I mean, Nimbora is one of those things. It hasn’t been built anywhere else actually now, we’re just finally starting to see some others building something similar, which is amazing because we started something that’s going to potentially be one of the standards in cross chain scaling and doing stuff across chains and so on. The whole Ethereum ecoystem is and Starknet is there always. So if you want to bet on something, Starknet is a good place to do so, especially with all the community builders maturing now into their own products. I don’t know, I need to stop, but it’s so exciting that these things are evolving so fast.

Ohad: Yeah, I get what you mean because I think that until six to 12 months ago we’re in position where every three months those things broke and we were still developing this technology and now it’s stable and ready and I see that people just moving forward without having to get back every two months and then it’s really getting the power from it.

Edi: Exactly. But it’s normal, the whole kind of problem. And then moving, I think, yeah, we joined more than three years ago. I remember everything was really rusty, but that’s why you go through the phases. That’s why I really believe now is the time to get into this and start building and scaling.

Ohad: Yeah. Okay. Very exciting to have this conversation with you. We have one question from the crowd since I gave my permission to ask questions. So that’s, what will Nimbora look like in five years?

Edi: So you won’t even know that you’re using Nimbora, but it’ll be on every phone and it’ll be your savings account. So basically it’ll be behind every wallet, behind basically every, wherever you are. Nimbora basically will be your place you earn with. But the idea is not that you have to know about Nimbora, you don’t have to specifically go to Nimbora, you don’t have to specifically have the circuit.
You’re just going to use it like you use your mobile, some mobile app and so on. It’s going to be there. And that’s when we achieve the thing. Because when people don’t have to know, “Oh, I need to go here, I need to click this, I need to download this.” There’s so many friction points still when we polish them and it’s natively on your phone. And when Defi becomes mainstream and basically hopefully we manage to convert like masses, that’s where basically NBO becomes the successful when people don’t even know they’re using it, but they’re actually just using it for savings.

Ohad: Okay. Yeah, I think that’s all I’ve done tossing you. So thanks a lot for this. I’m looking forward to seeing how Nimbora develops.

Edi: Thanks for having me, Ohad. It is always a pleasure. So I hope I wasn’t too bombastic with stuff sometimes get done, but I’m really hyped about this. I think certainties on this trajectory of exponential growth and now is the time to do it if you’re applying to something. Thanks for having me. You’re actually quite good for the first Space.

Ohad: Thanks a lot. Bye-bye everyone.

Edi: Bye-bye.