Real World Assets on Starknet

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Carbonable is dedicated to strengthening the integrity of the Voluntary Carbon Market (VCM) by offering a transparent platform at every stage of operation. This initiative ensures verifiability from the initial funding of carbon credit projects through to the ongoing management of offsets and beyond.

Transcript:

Guillaume:
What’s up?

Ramzi:
Are you streaming this live?

Guillaume:
I think we’re live.

Speaker 4:
We are live.

Liron:
How are you both doing?

Guillaume:
Very well. How about you, Liron?

Liron:
Good, good, good. Okay. So, we have joined today to talk to the Carbonable team about what they’re up to. Titled NFTs on StarkNet with Carbonable, but it’s misleading. It should be Real World Assets on StarkNet with Carbonable. Let’s start with introduction. Do each of you want to just introduce yourselves and give a bit of a background of who you are, where you’re from?

Guillaume:
Sure thing. We’re happy to be here. Thanks Liron. Thanks, Starkware, StarkNet. Guillaume, well, co-founder of Carbonable. Engineering background, French engineering background, and then moved to Canada, did an MBA over there, and we’re doing eight, 10 years leading digital products.
Always involved also on the environmental front. Did some work at the board of a non-profit on that front, and also some consulting for Care International. And at some point, along with Ramzi, the opportunity to actually bridge those two worlds, digital and environmental, through Carbonable.

Ramzi:
I’ll take the second run. So yeah. It’s really interesting because we’re not the common engineer coming in the space. So, we are coming from… Actually we did the same school with Guillaume before he went to the commercial schools. So, we did industrial engineering, so our specialization is more on the supply chain side, let’s say, in the beginning, again, for us.
On my side, I’d say, from this side of the force, let’s say, worked around 10 years in the industrial sector. So, for PNG, then COTI and Total Energy. So, main part of it was in the retail side working on information system. Most on that side I did all the roles in supply chain, actually, in master data and systems, in this case, and finished by being the supply chain director for Europe, from France, [inaudible 00:02:17] Benelux, to be honest. And it was some transportation variants on the Europe side. So, we are pretty pragmatic, focused on operation.
And yeah, when we talk with Guillaume, and this is… I’m teasing a little bit the story that’s after. So, we saw that they could be… There was a gap in the ecosystem of the sustainability based on having the right information systems to manage the assets. And actually, with what we came from, we had a lot of discussion with the players on the ground, let’s say, and come with an idea of bridging scalable integrity with the real life usage, more supply chain application to the real world assets that is specific to the environmental assets. And here we are with Carbonable.

Liron:
Awesome. You said a lot of stuff which we’ll unpack, but first, how did the two of you meet? You went to school together?

Guillaume:
Yeah, exactly. Super simple. We were at the engineering school together, created bonds, like we are friends. We’ve been friends for over, now, what, 17 years or something? So, yeah, it’s been a while.

Liron:
Okay, wow.

Guillaume:
Yeah, long friends and partners. Yeah, so it came naturally. They… Oh you’re muted, Lir.

Liron:
Ellie and Uri [inaudible 00:03:42] to me that co-founders spend more time with each other than husband and wife do.

Guillaume:
That’s… yeah. Yeah.

Liron:
Okay. And then I want to talk high level before StarkNet. What are carbon credits? People take for granted because it’s in the news so often, let’s assume the average person just doesn’t even know what they are. What are these carbon credits? Who’s buying them? What’s the whole market looking like?

Ramzi:
That’s a very good question. That’s good to start with this, actually. So, not to over-complexify things, there are two type of carbon markets. There is the regulatory carbon market and the voluntary carbon market. Regulatory carbon market is moreso a carbon trade type of market where companies have a limit of emissions they can do. If they go beyond, they have to pay. If they go under, they can sell those good performance to other companies. So, that’s like the regulatory market.

Liron:
Are these limits set on a national level, or a international standards?

Ramzi:
So, we are specializing moreso on the other market. But to answer your question, it’s per geography. There’s not an international, let’s say, regulatory market. It’s moreso like pie type. So, you have North America, you have EU, you have all of this. And so, the intent here, really, is to put a price on emissions and put an incentive for companies to reduce their emissions. So, that’s one side of the carbon market and that’s the one that has been the most famous for.
And there’s been a lot of acquisition of greenwashing, because the idea is like okay, but where does the money of those taxes go to? The idea is, it doesn’t go necessarily to actual true solutions. It’s moreso like money generated based on emissions.
And, on the contrary, you have the voluntary carbon market, and that has been designed to actually finance solutions that either absorb or avoid carbon emissions.
So, to make it simple, it fits into what is called the net-zero road. That has been pushed by the EU, that has been pushed by the COP28, and one other. All the COPs lately, where you have had those commitments, various agreements of, okay, we need a common net zero by 2050 if we want to go below two degrees’ increase in the atmosphere.
And so, with that, net zero, what does that mean? It means any company generates emissions, and those emissions, even if you reduce them at the maximum capacity, you will have what we call incompressible emissions. You are a human, you generate carbon. We use computers, they generate carbon. Any activities generate carbon, in a way. So, we can reduce them to the top, to the minimal level, which is going to be the incompressible level, and you will use those, then, carbon credits to actually counterbalance those leftover in terms of emissions. So, what you cannot reduce, you will actually finance solutions that either absorb or avoid carbon emissions.
And so, another way to put it is carbon credits in the voluntary carbon market is sort of like an asset that drives investments or funding into solutions that remove or absorb carbon. So, they are crucial. If you look like at the latest reports by the biggest scientists of the world, IPCC or whatnot, this plays a critical role in our civilization to actually reach an okay level of global warming.

Liron:
Gotcha. Okay. So, there’s basically this whole market for you to get to net zero. You finance these projects, can offset your emissions, and you’re a happy person. No, it’s super interesting to understand that this market has come up. I spoke to you a few weeks ago about it offline. I always imagined this, well, we own that the first direction, where you’re basically paying fines, effectively, for emitting carbon.
Here, emit your carbon, just be net zero through other efforts, and finance those efforts, and that can create jobs and do good stuff for the world.

Guillaume:
But to this point, maybe, and maybe it might lead to the next question is, so that is the concept and the concept is really, per se, virtuous. It’s you finance solutions that help reduce global warming and stuff. This is really well-thought.
The truth is, the execution is a different story. Since then, the fact is, up to now we could consider that this market has been and is still a little bit like the far west, where you have countless of players which are all disconnected, all stating things, but not necessarily having the data to actually prove it, or reliable data to base your decision on.
And so, one of the big problem that we’re resolving with Carbonable is to bring data integrity, to bring proofs of validity, and so of course through StarkNet, and Ramzi is going to be very well-placed to explain the ins and outs of this.
But on top of that, it’s also to enable action. So, reinforcing trust, because huge trust issue in this market, and reinforcing easiness of action. Because right now it’s super complex to understand, it’s super complex to execute. So, our mission, really, at Carbonable, is and will be to empower organizations and individuals to move from environmental commitments to a provable action. So, in here there is really action and provable.

Ramzi:
Yeah, let me just say quickly. On addition, I think there is a big… It’s key to understand a little bit the philosophy of the carbon credit. As Guillaume said, the importance of putting in our financial parts, including in the P and L, the cost of the pollution generated, the emission of CO2, to be able to balance it.
The best theory we have, the better one, the scientific one, is to be able to achieve carbon neutrality we should reduce, but also calculate way to offset the emission for the non-reducted. And my previous boss at PNG Industry was saying there’s no bad theory, there’s always only bad execution.
And the topic we’re facing now is, why do we see greenwashing? Why do people think about bullshit, or I think like this when we are talking about carbon credit, it’s because it’s not working. The execution of the plan, of the strategy of the companies that tried to go on this market, failed. And we had a lot of stories in the news, and all of this go to wrong execution.
And wrong execution don’t come from the fact that people are trying to do things bad. It comes from the fact that people, or organization, are limited in term of capability. Are we in a space where the capability that is required right here, we talk about passability, about transparency, about integrity, it’s the trust. It’s the lack of trust of whole ecosystem.
We know it’s really interesting in the money side, because you have a lot of different counterparts, and a lot of people decentralized, and maybe we’ll discuss after about the people that are needed to run this complex market. This market is complex, they require a lot of people on it. And today, the technology we have, the classical one, the centralized one, is limited. And people using it cannot achieve this execution, and are facing issues coming from a lot of different point of friction regarding the trust.
And what we are trying to do, and this is what we will serve with Carbonable, our role is to find a way to a proper execution, to guarantee that the integrity, and we will deep dive into it, but it’s important to differentiate the philosophy, the theory, which is interesting, pretty good and scientifically correct, versus the previous execution, and why is the execution not working?
And what could be a solution or a good exploration? And you are not the only one thinking about how decentralized infrastructure could help achieve this kind of interoperable and trustless mechanism. We try to answer it with integrity and the scale of energy. So, this is all about it.

Liron:
What I love is that you’ve defined the problem so well before you’ve talked about the solution, which in this industry of the blockchain, often people, they don’t formalize the exact problems that they’re solving. So, you’ve done a good deep dive into the problems.
Explain to us how blockchain, and maybe specifically how StarkNet, solves all of these pain points and issues that you described.

Ramzi:
We were talking about where we struggle in term of challenges for the execution. The challenges for the execution is to have the right operational system. So, the operating system that fits the needs and the usage of the field of the… we call it the métier, but I forget the name. Guillaume, if you have it, how we say métier? But the skills or the capability in general.
So, the challenge is how the companies could operate in one system to guarantee an operable data and where you can trust the data you’re reading. Because the challenges and the lack of operating, why it’s not a success, it’s coming from the fact that you don’t trust the data, and because of the fact that you lose information when you exchange them with other counterparts. So, this is where it come from.
So, for us, the blockchain, and we are going to talk about StarkNet. Oh, we lost Liron. Oh.

Liron:
I’m sorry.

Ramzi:
Continuing on that topic. But the question was, I’m continuing the question on why we’re using the blockchain. And it’s a really interesting, important question, why do we need the blockchain?
So, the layer of technology we are working on to provide the services is how we could… What is interesting in it is to provide integrity on the data, to have an operable data, to trust the data we are manipulating, the assets. But also, to be able to inter-operate with other counterparts.
When you are talking about carbon credits, the end-to-end process is pretty huge. The lifecycle of a carbon credit is pretty difficult, from the measurements, to measure your emissions, to the funding, to the generation on the registry of the satisfier, because this is not a tangible asset. The current credit is scientific-based on a certification made by a specialist of the market, with what you called a certifier, that will put his legal certification on the fact that certain type of trees have been planted, and that recognize it.
And it wasn’t until the exchange for the brokers and the usage, and after the auditability. On that topic, you have many companies, many project holders, many certifiers, and so on, and so there is a lot of standards that are different.
So, why the blockchain? The blockchain, the need is simple. It’s to provide standards and integrity and security. Actually, the blockchain for us it’s like a database that provides the security, and that is interoperable. So, this is the secret.
And when we talk blockchain, we are manipulating data, so we are doing applicative like an ERP, what you are calling an ERP, that is decentralized. We need security, but we cannot pay a lot of money for simple transaction of data. There is no money in it, so it’s only about costing, and when we are talking about security and cost and applicative, for us it’s simple to understand that what we need when we are doing this, it’s having access to scalable integrity.
So, how we can provide scalable security to data when we are doing applicative, and for us the answer is pretty clear. It’s whether we go on a layer two or even on an app chain. And for us, StarkNet is the right challenge for that topic because we are irritating from security of Ethereum and having access to cost and scalable accessibility to the security.
And another topic that is interesting, but to be honest, we’re here on StarkNet for that topic, but the other point is regarding the energetical efficiency. The zero knowledge, when you are doing consensus, is meant to be more efficient than of providing security, where you are comparing security and energy consumed to provide this level of security.
So, a lot of things that make sense, and value shared, that where we need to go on the blockchain, and where it’s important for us to be efficient, in terms of energy consumption and access to integrity on a lot of data.

Liron:
I’m just thinking, laughing as you’re saying it, the irony of doing this on a proof of work blockchain, it would be very sad to see that happen. And maybe, Guillaume, can you talk about the user experience? I assume that your target market is not StarkNet, dGEN, or maybe also, but in addition to that, you’re looking at non-crypto-native teams, companies, individuals. How has their onboarding experience been like?

Guillaume:
That’s a very good point. Just like to summarize in a different way what Ramzi said, and it will actually go into the direction. We have, let’s say, two type of… If we break it down, Carbonable is sort of like the backbone. Technological backbone is powered by StarkNet. This is like the infrastructure that we are building to provide integrity, to prove the integrity of the data.
And on top of that, we are building different applications and services that we offer to our targets. Our targets are, indeed, let’s say, to summarize, we have two main targets. One which is the historical one, the one we’ve started with, which was actually users. So, funders. Funders being individuals or small companies. We provided them access, and we still do, provide them access to trusted funding opportunities.
So, one part of the value prop that we offer is, okay, we’re going to find great projects, trusted because they go through our technology, and you will be able to prove the integrity of these projects from A to Z. And we’ll make it accessible, whatever the budgets, by leveraging. Let’s say, some sort of Web3 crowdfunding, if we make it simple.
That’s how we’ve started, and we still continue this because there is a market fit. There is a strong need for individuals and for corporations of all sorts.
Now, the second target is the one that we’ve developed recently, and the one we see also huge potential, is actually the ERP piece. And for that is operating system for large corporations and large funds to operate their carbon assets.
If we make it simple, you’re a company. You have million tons of CO2 to offset every year. You will invest into several projects, into several offsetting solutions.
To manage all of this, all the different projects under one umbrella and monitor them and report on them, et cetera, is a nightmare today. What they’re using is Excel sheets, and if not, nothing.
So, what we’re doing is, we’re modelizing those assets, bringing them all together under one umbrella, and helping them to drive their offsetting strategies from A to Z seamlessly and with integrity.
And so, in both cases, the UX is super keen, is super important. For large corporations, our goal is actually blockchain abstraction, in a way, because those users, they almost don’t need to know what is the technology below, and they don’t need to have those blockers of Web3-native type of application.
So, we are working hard on this to make it as seamless as possible for non-Web3 users to leverage Carbonable. And for the individual ones, which was the first target that we discussed, we started as Web3 native, we still have this, but we are moving towards a goal as well, which is blockchain free in a way.
Because the idea is, anybody could be interested in funding nature-based solutions. We don’t want it to be Web3 specific. It’s just like Web3 is the technology behind, it’s the backbone that is empowering concrete action and seamless action. And so, that’s really our goal. We know that we’re building pioneering technology, but we want it to seem as seamless as possible, and to feel as just Web2, 3, we don’t mind. It needs to feel seamless for any type of user.

Ramzi:
Just a quick addition on the user, what is important? So, of course the main user that you’re targeting is the B2B, because he’s the one that need to manage his asset. He’s the one that need to run his accounting regarding emission versus offsetting.
But actually, the end the user is the citizen. So, for us, having an access to integrity is important for everyone. So, when you are buying a brand, and this brand is saying that it’s carbon neutral, for now you can only trust it, so you have to trust this brand and you have to trust what is behind it, et cetera.
So, what if you could verify it, and you could be sure that when you’re going to an event, and this event is carbon neutral, that you know how it’s happening. And this is the idea, to give access to everyone. This is a usage, but also usage could be something that is interesting.
So, companies need to do two things to offset because it’s a financial decision. So, based on your available cash, you decide to anticipate your future emission or to pay on the spot market for current emission, and you need spot market. And the spot market needs for what funding, actually. And it could come from the institution, it could come from the company themselves, but also citizen could be involved in it.
Imagine tomorrow when you are trying to put your savings in real-world assets. You can put it for now on actions, on options, and you can put it in real estate, but the idea is also to provide green position for the future and for your savings.
And this could be also an involvement of the citizen from the beginning to the end of the process. So, where we are exploring all the users, but of course we are focusing on one thing is addressing big corporations, and also addressing blockchain free accessibility to our user.

Liron:
One example I like to use is that you go on a website, you don’t know if they’re using MySQL or Postgres or Node.js in their background. You don’t care. The way I perceive it, you are not a blockchain company. You are a carbon credit platform. You happen to use blockchain in the background because it’s the best solution out there for StarkNet, specifically.
Ramzi:
When you are using your bank account on the phone, for example, we have Revolute in France, that is called Revolute, but I think other application exists, you don’t care about what is the technology behind. You’re just putting your savings, and you just want to be exposed to Tesla, for example, and you don’t figure out what is the technology behind. So, the idea if it’s more efficient with the blockchain, why not to go through it? The idea is that whether on the blockchain or not on the blockchain, it’s not about infrastructure efficiency. And for now, I think it’s that the efficiency is from this side.

Guillaume:
To-

Liron:
And speaking to your… Go ahead, Guillaume.

Guillaume:
To go further on what you just said, it’s hard for us to define ourselves, to be honest, because we are a Web3 company in the sense that we are really powered by and we’ve invested a lot of time, money, et cetera, in it because we know all the value it provides.
And also, indeed, the end users don’t care about it, for the most part. So, it’s tricky because we define ourselves both.
And on the Web3 front, what pushes us even… Why we don’t want to say we’re not a Web3 company is because what we’re building is an infra, and this infra so far is serving carbon offset as a purpose, because this is the immediate need and most crucial need that we’ve addressed through this, but we know that we could leverage it for other use cases in the future as well.
Just to say, we are a combination of, indeed, carbon offset specific one and Web3 powered. And who knows, in some time the infra that we’re building could be used for other use cases of carbon offset specifically.
I’m just saying, for example, biodiversity credits. This is another type of credits that will arrive. Water credits. Generating proofs of integrity on the sustainability front from other type of data providers.
There are so many, let’s say, other use cases that we’ve identified already that we could leverage our infra for, so that’s why I just wanted to say, we are really at the intersection, and we define ourselves as a Web3-powered, indeed, offset-specific solution.

Liron:
Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. You don’t want to limit yourself. You don’t want to be just a carbon credits company, you want to be real-world assets more broadly.

Guillaume:
Yep.

Liron:
But okay, practically speaking, an institution comes and wants to buy credits on your platform or finance a program on your platform. Are they downloading a kind of section while they’re on StarkNet? Are they just doing it on your end, and then… Practically speaking, how’s the user experience on the blockchain side? Is it just abstracted away from them?

Ramzi:
For the governance of big companies? So, the maturity is still building up, so we are discussing with them, the CTO is not used, let’s say, to the usage. It could be sometimes frightening, and so on. So, as we said, for now, we are working on providing a UX that is blockchain free and adapted to the IT governance, to the corporate IT governance, procedures and so on. So, we are trying to do vitilization and exploration with them, which is interesting because we are addressing something that is not business critical, but is important for them.
So, it’s interesting to have a use case like ours, to build maturity on the blockchain ecosystem, let’s say. So, for now we are doing it a tricky way. We are doing it for them, so this is the v1 version of how we could onboard them on the blockchain.
So, they have services, but they can have approach to the dashboard, to the reports, and so on. And when they digitalize it, we manage it for them now by ourselves in the beginning. And the idea is to help them to develop and to build maturity on it little by little.

Liron:
Okay, makes sense. And there’s a lot of benefits even if you’re doing behind the scenes. They still have the viability, the immutability, and they can expect the transactions, et cetera.

Ramzi:
Exactly.

Guillaume:
And that’s true for the big players with who we’re working, but for moreso SMEs, small and medium enterprises. Some of them are actually already geared up with start-up wallets. And our goal, and to go back to our discussion right before, the why also we are sort of at the intersection.
Because our aspiration is really to bring on board as many off-chain companies as possible on-chain, in a way, and in a way that they don’t feel it. But the goal is to bring a lot of real-world TVL to the Web3 ecosystem through this use case, which is actually critical for big corporations.

Ramzi:
Very good point, Guillaume, because we don’t imagine what is behind the impact for companies. So, the first question you had with small companies, because we have an opportunity for them, for the smallest one, because what they’re doing is that they’re answering RFQ, so to big offers. And today being carbon-neutral means they participate to the roadmap of the carbon neutrality of big companies, so they can win offers easier with us, with an easy access to carbon neutrality than they were used to, and they can do it also for their employees and so on.
But today, convincing small companies to have a StarkNet address is pretty easy, but we don’t imagine that the accountings need to have information, how they manage it, how they manage NFT that is related to real-world assets. So, we are working also on that side, so we decided to make a note with our accounting to explain how you manage the carbon assets that are digitalized on the blockchain.
But for now, what is really interesting is that it’s working, so they don’t have any pushback from that side. But it’s a lot of work. The road is long to have it really easy for them to understand, from accountings, for all the impact it could have externally for them. And we are doing the work, taking charge of all of this.

Liron:
Makes sense. Shifting gears, can you talk about the competitive landscape? Are there other teams doing similar stuff in general, more broadly, and more specifically using blockchain as the backend?
Ramzi:
Guillaume, you’re on mute. You’re on mute, Guillaume.

Guillaume:
Yeah. So, first and foremost, let’s say overall, technological agnostic-wise. We are some of the pioneers on the actual carbon-assets management. There’s been a lot of players playing, there are a lot of players already, into helping companies find projects. This is a market which is pretty, let’s say, crowded.
Once you’ve invested, how do you manage all of this? How do you make it into a seamless resource-planning system? We are pioneers, truth be told. There are not so many, and we are realizing that actually, all the big companies that are working with us are realizing the need as we speak. So, we are set up the first movers, let’s say, one of the first movers.
And now, obviously, more and more companies are starting to realize that there is a big need, and of course they’re starting to move in that direction.
That said, we have a very strong competitive advantage, is that we are Web3 native. We’ve started with this. And any other companies that are currently starting to move on that front are Web2 powered. And in that case, they don’t answer one of the main need of the market, which is trust.
And so, that’s why we hear it from the different companies we’re working with. We’re first movers on the operational front, and we are ahead in the technological front. So, we are in good position, let’s say, and this is our goal in simple, is to become the authority in the carbon-assets management.
And so, that’s why also, we are going to start a rent show for a fundraising number two, actually fairly soon, because we’ve onboarded some giant companies. We have a pipeline which is very big, and we’ve done it with a team, let’s say, fairly small. What we want to do now is to accelerate both on the technological front and the commercial front. So, the next big move on our side is fundraise to actually accelerate.

Liron:
If any of you’s listening are investors, please feel free to reach out after this call.
Guillaume:
Absolutely.

Liron:
Having said that, Starkware, I think, are proud investors in your previous round. That was, I think, two years ago? And if you want to give an overview of the historical funding.
Guillaume:
Yeah, absolutely. We’ve started with… It was a pre-seed round, mainly business [inaudible 00:35:18]. Then we did a seed round a bit more than a year ago, and that’s where Starkware actually entered.
And in that round, it was also involving two other key players, one on the Web3 front, which is FRO Ventures, and another one on the more institutional front, which is XAnge, which is a big European, let’s say, institutional DC. And it was our wish, let’s say, to have both a Web3 fund and a institutional one, because we were right at the intersection of both worlds.

Liron:
That’s very beautifully said. Okay, practically speaking, apparently there are 2,000 people listening at some point now, I assume the average person there is not a CFO of a big multinational club looking to offset their carbon emissions. So, for the average retailer listening here, what can they do on Carbonable? Apparently you have this green chip campaign going on. How can they get started? Can you tell us more about the campaign, what they can do, how they can get involved?

Guillaume:
Yeah. So, a bit more like back where we were saying we have two main targets, number one is individuals and small and medium companies, and other is big corporations. So, let’s focus on the individuals and small and medium companies. We are a gateway to trusted and tailored funding of carbon assets. So, you’re an individual, and you want to offset your own emissions, you can do it through Carbonable. You are a company, and you want to offset your emissions, you want to plan your offsetting for the next decades at a lower cost than what you would do by buying carbon credits on spot market, you can fund tailored projects through Carbonable. So, that’s one big way, let’s say, to first kick off your interaction with Carbonable.
To do so, quite easy. You’re a company, and you’re wishing to invest into tailored projects, reach out to us. We have actually already a bank of projects that we can activate. An individual’s wait for the next public funding that we’ll publish. Karaturu 1 was one, we ended it. So, it raised over $360 K. I don’t have the option number, but $369 K, something like that.
This was the funding of a project which is a mangrove project in Myanmar. Very prime project, super good in terms of social impact, super good in terms of biodiversity impact, by a project developer that has run already several projects.
And the idea here for the investors was to get a supply of carbon assets. And those carbon assets, then, as an owner, you can either use them for offset purposes, or you can say, “Hey Carbonable, please find some buyers for those carbon credits.” And in that case, we tap into our network of B2B.

Ramzi:
This is the digital mode, let’s say, of Carbonable. You can do it. What we’re doing is providing you access to investment opportunity that you don’t have access in general that is reserved, say, to big corporations that are doing it by themselves, because it requires a lot of legal entity, infrastructural costs that are pretty big.
So, what we’re making it is that we are dividing it and using the blockchain to guarantee the same level of ownership that you can have with legal entity, and so on, and making it accessible. So, digital mode, you want to be exposed to this market. It’s easy to do it. So, for now you could go on the secondary market and buy position in project to be able to have… There is three different project, I think, four different projects at that moment. You can choose, do your own research, and be exposed to one of the projects you trust will make the difference.
We are choosing it pretty precisely and doing the due diligence also on it, but it’s your decision. We are providing the opportunity, and you take the responsibility, and you take the decision to be exposed to it. And what you are betting when you’re doing this is that the regulation that is coming will push all the companies to find, very quickly, solutions to offset their emissions to be compliant with the regulation, and that the price of the carbon credits could increase. And if you want to be exposed on it, so in your dGEN you can also take this scenario and be expose it.
And the idea, what we’re offering you with Carbonable, is to do it in the proper way. In the proper way, but also to expose you to the reality. So, the core of what you’re doing is the integrity. So if the project fails, so for example, when you’re buying a house, if the house burns, you lose the opportunity because something happened to the house.
When you fund a project of regenerative nature, if the forest burn, and there is a risk, the risk is not huge, but there is a risk if something happened, and we are putting the right thing to monitor the thing because what will put the value in the carbon credit, it’s the trust. The more trust you have in the carbon credit, the more cost efficiency it becomes.
And this is what we want to provide. So, it comes with the risk, so you can lose your things, but it’s in line with the reality. And what you’re offering with Carbonable is infrastructure to be exposed properly to this market. And you can choose whether you want to be a dGEN and invest in it, and in the future, and have your savings working for the planet and for your money, let’s say.
But you can also use it for cost efficiency and to say, “Okay, I want to be carbon-neutral in 20 years, and I start today because it’ll cost really much more in the future. So, I start being positioned today, and it’ll be a good financial decision in the future.”

Guillaume:
That’s a good way to put it, and we use it, and companies are using it, is the of inaction. All forecasts are clear. Price is going to increase, and it’s not by two or three, all forecasts are saying, tens and more. So, the cost of inaction for a company to not act today is pretty significant.
And so, that’s why big corporations now are moving as of today, planning their net zero. And so, that’s why I think moreso, more and more now, small and medium companies are realizing also that they should as of now. And if you look at this, the cost of opportunity is actually vice versa for investors. And so, that’s why not only dGENs, you have actually big funds which are investing in those nature-based solutions and carbon removal projects, because they know that investing in a project right now is going to generate carbon assets, which value is going to increase drastically over the next years and decades.
So, this opportunity is both a risk for big companies and an opportunity for investors. And of course, we are addressing both depending on the hats that you’re wearing and you want to interact carbon removal with.

Liron:
Interesting. So, if you want to buy some credits today, had your exposure for 20 years, whatever it is, go to Carbonable today. Very nice.
We are running out of time. Do either of you want to share some final comments? What I didn’t mention, probably some more formal announcements to go on around this, but Starkware as a company is in the process of purchasing carbon credits on Carbonable, both in the spot market and also in the financing category. And we are also on this journey, learning a lot about this whole world of carbon credits, of protecting the world, protecting the environment. And we discovered you because of Starknet, obviously, but it’s been a nice journey and a nice outcome.

Guillaume:
And we’re really delighted to collaborate by our technology provider, in a way. If we make it simple, it’s a natural binding.

Ramzi:
What we like about being here and sharing the value we have in common is about the integrity and the notion of going beyond the commitments. We don’t want to state we are contributing to carbon neutrality, we want to go on the proving side, prove your action instead of commit on what you will do.
And this is what you’re trying also to build.

Liron:
Yes.

Ramzi:
Prove your scale Ethereum, instead of selling it. I like also the comparison to other ecosystems. So, this is what we bring and this is the shared value that we’re trying to work on.
Before we go, special mention to all the teams. So, we are a lot working in Carbonable, and we are always both facing the cams and the things, but today we are around 12 people working. We are going to the south next week of France, all together by the way, to have a good time, but a big part of the team is a technical team, of course, but we are having also people that working in finance, working with the corporates, at the events and so on, and that are doing a great job with all the patient of trying to contribute to make this theory and this execution better than it is today, and to enable actions toward reducing carbon emission, and finding ways to the objective of carbon neutrality, and so on.
And a special mention also to the teams today. It’s also important, and it’s also let know people that we’re not only two, and that we are 12 working on it. We are young company of course, but working with the major players on the industrial ecosystem and sectors, mainly because Europe is mainly leading the regulation toward this.
Europe is good at doing a lot of regulation, but it have its good side. So, we try to be the standards, and we try also to lobby our standards to say, hey, this is how integrity could be included in the process and the end process, and the interest of having a scalable one is pretty interesting. So, this is it.

Liron:
Awesome. Well, that was a great note to end off with. So, if people want to learn more, they can check you out on Twitter, go to your website, and also reach out to me on the Starkware team. We can direct you over to the Carbonable team.
We are looking forward to hearing about your successful fundraiser. Hopefully some big partnerships, and I’m happy that this is all being secured and verified on Starknet.

Ramzi:
Thank you, Liron, for that.

Guillaume:
Thank you much for the opportunity, and-